CT2: Early rough translation

[Choco]

I don't think anyone wants to see SPS with 5 Slows:

Enchanted Curse Weakness
Freezing Shackle
Frost Bolt
Blizzard
Ice Vortex

Not balanced.

Ice Dagger is bleeding skill as well :dwf_luv:

[NerZ]

something makes me think instead of nerfing dmg from long range it will be :
100% dmg on range and boosted damage on close range.

you actually used your brain?

it should be less dmg the closer you are to the target,at least for normal attacks.cause the arrow need to accelerate a bit to deal dmg and from close distance this shouldnt happen.

EDIT:where did you see that dmg decreases only on skills?

did you use yours ? lol
sounds like if you are saying that the arrow start slow and finish fast, it doesnt accelerate you know !
the arrow gets basicly slower with environement friction and gravity, so unless you put rockets instead of arrows or force of attraction, your arrow isnt gonna get faster...

so the logic wants that closest point of impact gets the highest force from the hit.
but since its only a game they apply what should be done for balance, cuz again logic wants when fighter with 2 sword come close to an archer basicly he cut off his hands, not fun to play archer this way :) but sure funny to see.

[beleaua]

highest range = low arrow velocity and accuracy so you miss the arrow :P

[Crystine1]

LOLOL! Mass Debuff FTW.

But seriously, Mass Debuffs are useless, just like most of the OL ones. They also suffer from the same problems. If they land more than the OL debuffs, it is only because of M.Atk difference. We don't have any sleeper pwner skills with single-target debuff base land rate, either.

MOBs resist Mass Gloom so much it isn't even funny. What do you think players at a seige will do. Mass Slow needs a huge land-rate adjustment before anyone can expect me to sacrifice my HPs to cast it, with the amount of damage I get targetted with "just cause" I'm a Necro.

Alot of Necros are Gloom/Spike nukers simply because it is the most efficient use of MP. Personally, I have always played mine as a debuffer first and nuker second, but the higher in levels you get, the less and less those debuffs work due to buffs, epics, prophecies, and set bonuses. With the Dynasty Jewels, you see even more debuff resistance coming into play. They nuke because it's the only reliable thing they can do. Mass Debuffs are all-or-none, and their chance to land is extremely low at high levels.

No Soultaker will wreck havok with any AoE debuffs unless it's a hero skill, and that's mostly because the learn level of those skills is set at a high level.

The A Grade Mass Debuffs are borderline (almost completely) useless. The Single Target debuffs are very nice, yes, mostly due to Nuker M.Atk and high Base Land Rate + Gloom. But have fun trying to mass gloom end-game-buffed toons on a Soultaker, Lol. You servitor will die OTW (servitor is target for the PBAE, so it has to be in the middle of people) and you will waste alot of adena trying (cause it's like 4 cursed bones a cast).

So I have to disagree with that.
I never use(d) mass gloom because its just not practical and I only use mass slow if they are trying to rush past us in a castle siege. Warrior/mage bane are extremely useful though in larger scale pvps because alot people dont pay attention to their acumen/emp/haste/ww and never rebuff it. Even if they do rebuff it, it can be recast quickly with full buffs.

[Mr_kzimir]

Ice Dagger is bleeding skill as well :dwf_luv:

Ok Imba ...

[TehPwn]

Ice Dagger is bleeding skill as well :dwf_luv:

Yes, sorry, I meant Ice Dagger but put Freezing Shackle in there instead. Thanks for the Correction!

[TehPwn]

I never use(d) mass gloom because its just not practical and I only use mass slow if they are trying to rush past us in a castle siege. Warrior/mage bane are extremely useful though in larger scale pvps because alot people dont pay attention to their acumen/emp/haste/ww and never rebuff it. Even if they do rebuff it, it can be recast quickly with full buffs.

Combo Buffs in CT1+ will render banes largely useless since they do not remove combo buffs.

[Jonne]

you actually used your brain?

it should be less dmg the closer you are to the target,at least for normal attacks.cause the arrow need to accelerate a bit to deal dmg and from close distance this shouldnt happen.

EDIT:where did you see that dmg decreases only on skills?



Oh good God, you should fire your physics teacher.

Or do you have some arrows with fucking rocket engines attached to them?

[Jonne]

In terms of all out power, sure nobody can refute the effectiveness of Crushers.

But a Soultakers debuffs more than make up for that imo, with the high landrates on Anchor, Doom, Silence, AoE Debuffs etcetcetcetc (the list goes on) even in Mass PVP against fully buffed opponents, the smart Necro can still cause chaos.

The problem with most Necro's is they have the mentality of the Gloom & Spike nuker, which they need to get rid of.


In mass pvp there's basically two debuffs that are good for the necro to do. And those are the mass banes, presuming it can somehow pull them off.

All the other debuffs, well why the hell would you choose to debuff a target in mass pvp instead of just killing it?

[Eyee]

freezing strike sux donkey balls

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm45/teflonoverflow/rage.png

[Blitzball]

it was my bad soz.

PS:can i overwrite win xp dark edition over my win xp sp2 without any conflicts?

[Dexstar]

LOLOL! Mass Debuff FTW.

But seriously, Mass Debuffs are useless, just like most of the OL ones. They also suffer from the same problems. If they land more than the OL debuffs, it is only because of M.Atk difference. We don't have any sleeper pwner skills with single-target debuff base land rate, either.

MOBs resist Mass Gloom so much it isn't even funny. What do you think players at a seige will do. Mass Slow needs a huge land-rate adjustment before anyone can expect me to sacrifice my HPs to cast it, with the amount of damage I get targetted with "just cause" I'm a Necro.

Alot of Necros are Gloom/Spike nukers simply because it is the most efficient use of MP. Personally, I have always played mine as a debuffer first and nuker second, but the higher in levels you get, the less and less those debuffs work due to buffs, epics, prophecies, and set bonuses. With the Dynasty Jewels, you see even more debuff resistance coming into play. They nuke because it's the only reliable thing they can do. Mass Debuffs are all-or-none, and their chance to land is extremely low at high levels.

No Soultaker will wreck havok with any AoE debuffs unless it's a hero skill, and that's mostly because the learn level of those skills is set at a high level.

The A Grade Mass Debuffs are borderline (almost completely) useless. The Single Target debuffs are very nice, yes, mostly due to Nuker M.Atk and high Base Land Rate + Gloom. But have fun trying to mass gloom end-game-buffed toons on a Soultaker, Lol. You servitor will die OTW (servitor is target for the PBAE, so it has to be in the middle of people) and you will waste alot of adena trying (cause it's like 4 cursed bones a cast).

So I have to disagree with that.

At the risk of sounding like a retard if I'm wrong, don't Soultakers get Mass Warrior/Mage Bane? Do you know how effective that is?

[beleaua]

At the risk of sounding like a retard if I'm wrong, don't Soultakers get Mass Warrior/Mage Bane? Do you know how effective that is?
yea they get that and also banes are very good in ct1 but cant remove combo buffs from ct1.5 like he/others already said

[LogOut]

About that arrow thing:
When you fire it, it has a certain acceleration value, which makes it move faster. That acceleration value decreases over time, but that doesn't mean the speed (therefore the kinetic power) decreases as well. As long as acceleration > 0 kinetic power aka damage increases. When acceleration finally drops below 0, speed will start to decrease along with it's power. Therefore you don't deal max dmg with a bow neighter close to an enemy, nor far from him, but somewhere in between. Highest dmg = the point where acceleration reached 0 but didn't yet drop below it.

Jeez that's primary school physics, stop playing L2, GO TO SCHOOL!

[Choco]

Well, actually the arrow has highest speed at the moment it leaves the bow IF and ONLY IF it is fired properly. But how can the arrow be fired properly when there is someone kicking in your ass or hitting in your face.

The reduced damage at close range is not due to the speed of the arrow, it's due to the ability of the shooter to fire the arrow properly.

[Xadhoom]

you know the arrow only accelerate aslong as the arrow is attached to the bowstring and the bow is releasing its energy that it have stored up when you pulled the bowstring back. once the arrow have left the bowstring it will start to slow down. so basicly you should hit hardest fairly close to you but too close should make it impossible to fire the arrow.

Necros: AoE curse gloom resisted much in PvE? wth, i almost never get it resisted. i havent tried it much in PvP though cause i rarely remeber to use it.

[chongchewyong]

Ice Bolt - Freezing attack that temporarily slows enemy`s Speed
Frost Bolt - Freezing attack that reduces enemy`s Speed
Ice Dagger - Blade of ice that causes enemy to bleed (Bleed: Movement speed reduction has been added)
Curse Weakness - Instantaneous curse that reduces target`s P. Atk (Enchant Add Slow: Speed of the target is decreased)
Frost Wall - Attacks your target with a wall of ice (Enchant Add Freezing: Speed is decreased by freezing the target)
Blizzard - Double wintry attack that reduces enemy`s Speed
Ice Vortex - Instantly decreases the enemy’s Speed/Atk. Spd./Casting Spd
Diamond Dust - Freezes targets within range, decreasing their speed
Frost Armor - Water armor, Add water resist and decrease the speed on nearby enemies


LAWL

[Choco]

you know the arrow only accelerate aslong as the arrow is attached to the bowstring and the bow is releasing its energy that it have stored up when you pulled the bowstring back. once the arrow have left the bowstring it will start to slow down. so basicly you should hit hardest fairly close to you but too close should make it impossible to fire the arrow.

Necros: AoE curse gloom resisted much in PvE? wth, i almost never get it resisted. i havent tried it much in PvP though cause i rarely remeber to use it.

Agree with the reasoning about bow. You should hit hardest at the minimum distance where you can still fire an arrow properly. For anything closer than that, archer shouldn't be able to shoot at all, which is why archers in real life always have swords to use at melee range.

[LogOut]

you know the arrow only accelerate as long as the arrow is attached to the bowstring and the bow is releasing its energy that it have stored up when you pulled the bowstring back. once the arrow have left the bowstring it will start to slow down. so basicly you should hit hardest fairly close to you but too close should make it impossible to fire the arrow.


True, I selfowned myself >.< I mixed it up thinking acceleration ~ base acceleration + inputted energy, rather than acceleration ~ ONLY inputted energy and speed ~ base speed + acceleration.

You should hit hardest at the minimum distance

Archers shooting distant targets aim above them, so the arrow can gain extra acceleration at the end of the flight thanks to gravity. Tho I can't tell if it's more than shooting a close target (probably not), but I guess the difference isn't that big (at least not as big as while shooting directly to a target on the normal ballistic curve of arrow flight). Bigger problem than the damage is aiming correctly.

[langlang]

In mass pvp there's basically two debuffs that are good for the necro to do. And those are the mass banes, presuming it can somehow pull them off.

All the other debuffs, well why the hell would you choose to debuff a target in mass pvp instead of just killing it?
i dunno... why would you debuff a slow moving melee class with 10k hp/cp then just nuke it to death? It boggles the mind.

[Xadhoom]

Archers shooting distant targets aim above them, so the arrow can gain extra acceleration at the end of the flight thanks to gravity. Tho I can't tell if it's more than shooting a close target (probably not), but I guess the difference isn't that big (at least not as big as while shooting directly to a target on the normal ballistic curve of arrow flight). Bigger problem than the damage is aiming correctly.

they aim above simply for longer reach no other reason, if they shot straight forward they wont reach long before the arrow hit the ground. if they want to have maximum range they should aim at something around 40 degrees angle, more and the arrow will lose more energy due to too high elevation and more time traveling trough air then if it had been shot at a lower angle.

[Jonne]

It's about 4 years since I took my engineering physics courses so I might be wrong, but this is the way I remember it works:
If you're in a vacuum and fire an arrow on a ballistic curve, then the moment it hits the ground (on the same level as it was fired), it will have the exact same velocity as it did when it was fired. It will not be faster than during the moment of firing.
But in real life, there's air and that air will cause a drag so the velocity of the arrow will be less on the moment of impact than it was directly when fired.

[LogOut]

they aim above simply for longer reach no other reason, if they shot straight forward they wont reach long before the arrow hit the ground. if they want to have maximum range they should aim at something around 40 degrees angle, more and the arrow will lose more energy due to too high elevation and more time traveling trough air then if it had been shot at a lower angle.

You're talking about the ballistic curve - the natural trajectory of an arrow in Earth environment, cause of the gravity. What I'm talking about is aiming even higher

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/4074/szczalaiw7.jpg

1- normal trajectory (ballistic curve)
2- shooting higher than the normal trajectory

[boo]

I dunno why we're even discussing this lol

[chris.]

jonne i love it when you talk physics to me