Gay Marrige

[Jonne]

Just make a civilian "institution" or whatever it's called that is legally just like the traditional marriage. Keep the church out of it (which should be easy in the US since you got it in your constitution that church and state are seperate).

And for all of you who are saying that marriage is a christian institution, the concept of marriage was around alot before Jesus got nailed to the cross

[Vishka]

There was a reason the Romans fed the Christians to lions.
a large portion of the romans were gay :P

[Jonne]

And Greeks.

Remember the movie Troy? Brad Pitt played Achilles. Achilles had a cousin called Patroclus. In the movie Patroclus was "just his cousin".
According to the original mythology they were way more than that

[Vishka]

Just make a civilian "institution" or whatever it's called that is legally just like the traditional marriage. Keep the church out of it (which should be easy in the US since you got it in your constitution that church and state are seperate).

And for all of you who are saying that marriage is a christian institution, the concept of marriage was around alot before Jesus got nailed to the cross
im hoping the fools wernt saying its a christian institution but it is based on a relegious institution. most "god" faring peoples would hold ceremonies in honor of thier gods before the first night a couple were to (uhm well you get the idea) eventually it was turned to marriage because later on down the road couples would wed before even metting eachother... I mean the first time many of them would meet was at thier wedding... thats the religeous portion... the people begging "god" to Force them together so they dont wtf kill eachother... Thats why in older weddings in transcripts you rarely read the word or a word that translates to "love" because it was rarely a thing of love...

Also those fuck tards who think kids who grow up in gay homes turn gay themselves? FUCK YOU MORONS! you people know nothing as always putting your noses where they dont belong... thats what church is imo... a place for all the old wives to get together and talk shit... and by old wives i mean everyone of you fuckers... cowards and simpletons who are so scared of your reality that you have to come up with an imaginary friend who will protect you... lol

I was raised in a gay home... My mother is a lesbian... Obviously she was with men but she said men never made her feel the way she does about the women she has been with... Ive had 3 good friends all raised under similar situations and all of us are straight... why is that i wonder... call gay's and lesbian's abnormal... They are... They are imo enlightened... They are heros in our times because they will fight for what they believe in... They will not let foolish tyrants and oppressors hold them back... and most of em do it with style :P (inside joke if your gay you probably get it) I am surprised that they have allowed this bullshit to go on as long as it has... government is supposed to be seperate from church but as you see it is not... our money says in god we trust... I trust in no god... i am an agnostic leaning toward athiest... i believe if there ever was a god he said fuck it and left to do more interesting things or he is dead... God has no say in who i marry and neither does man.


BTW for those who said marriage was solely a church related institution... government for so long as there has been such a thing (including hierarchy and maybe more so because of it) has always controled it... and i think it should continue to do so... and please stop spewing procreation... there are too many fucking people as it is...

[Vishka]

And Greeks.

Remember the movie Troy? Brad Pitt played Achilles. Achilles had a cousin called Patroclus. In the movie Patroclus was "just his cousin".
According to the original mythology they were way more than that
alexander the great was one of the most famous gay men in history :) look what he accomplished :P

[Muppetz]

Gay Marriage is fine, as long as both chicks are hot.

[Ecsed]

Honestly, I don't mind about gay marriages. Please don't bring religion into this, because it doesn't. I hate when people start being like, "Oh well.. my religion says i shouldn't eat meat, so all meat should be banned" or "my religion says it isn't good, so it isn't good"... This is like saying, "Well my friend says i should suck his penis, so im gunna suck his penis"... Don't accept things for only what people say, religion deprived many of you of your common sense and intelligence.

Gay mariages. This IS the only thing you can say. If you disagree, you are wrong. It is the simple fact, truth, and reason and fiber of there being.

- Gay people are fine. Leave them alone. They in no way harm you. Don't deprive them of their fun when they don't do anything to you. Done.

Don't argue, you can't because it is in fact impossible.

-Possible arguements you might want to try. So i will describe how wrong it is now.

"They don't have babies" - Trust me, of all things population is of NO worry to us. at all....

"They are hitting on me all the time" - Gay people are no worse than women in this way. If you have women hitting on you constantly, and you are at these forums... You need to get out of fantasy land.

Umm... that is about it. That is the discussion, arguement, reasons, uhh... and very fabric of what life is based on. Done..




Edit: Omg... I see the religion issue is popping up.

Listen. Listen. Don't argue. Use common sense not what has been brain washed.

The original bible was written in mainly hebrew. Still, to this day, 50% of hebrew can't be translated to english. That means that yes can be no or no can be yes. Heaven can be hell. Wrong can be right. Bible = Fail.

Religion... People think that god exists but they don't have any proof. Proof has been given to evolution. Proof compared to no proof... hmm...

Brainwashing: Why is it that religion (when your a baby that accepts what is shown) they now baptize you. To completely deprive you of common sense or denying, and just make you accept it. Once you are !!13!! and you develop something in your brain that causes you to question things. A religion now gives you the right of being called a MAN. So you don't start questioning that, and just really really like it. Nice. Not to mention, they make you go every sunday (and many don't, so that goes against god... You go to hell, good job)

Hm.... All animals were made different. Hmm... Amazing how apes share near to what... 95 or more % of our genes? That is AMAZING how different we are.

Hmm.. So... Religion fails? bible fails? Your wrong? Don't use that in real life, because it never works. I have no problem with you believing WHATEVER you want. However, i do have a problem when you say because of it, certain amounts of people cannot do it because you read it in a fake book.

But to say again: NO PROBLEM WITH RELIGION. In fact, i like that people have religion. It is a way of working harder, thinking better of themselves. But sometimes, you really need to think about waht their saying. It is like when you see a bunch of girls in a club dancing to a song singing, "IM A BITCH, IM A BITCH, I SUCK DICK ALL DAY CUZ IM A BITCH" while in thongs and crap. It is just brain washing, and horrible really.

No, stop arguing. Read this, it is all you can say. No way to argue, none. So stop. lol.


( As to the watch scenario...

Couple for you...

A long time ago, a theologist once said, "If you believe in god's super power and magnificance, you believe he can control all... Now... I have a glass tube in my hand, if you believe in god you must believe that this tube will in fact hover above the ground and will not break.".... in front of a class of... i think 70-80, he says, "pray to your all mighty, pray all you can." *He tosses it to the floor*. And guess what happens, it breaks. and he concludes. "If this doesn't change your thoughts in any way and you refuse to believe it, you need to think... What would make it happen and why don't you think anything will change your mind... The brain is an amazing thing. What is launched into it ever so aggresively and strongly will be strongly and aggresively held."

A scenario: Get a mallet hammer. Put your monitor and your tower on top of each other. Slam this mallet hammer 20 times on both using all your possible force. If they don't break, and you show proof. I will change my religion right now, if they do break. I thank god more stupid religious people are off the internet.

Hmm one more for fun: Throw your Monitor and Tower into a river, walk home. If it magically appears back in your home, without the use of friends or any person, i will become religous right away because that is great insurance. If not, well... thank god more religous poeple are gone.

[Vishka]

A scenario: Get a mallet hammer. Put your monitor and your tower on top of each other. Slam this mallet hammer 20 times on both using all your possible force. If they don't break, and you show proof. I will change my religion right now, if they do break. I thank god more stupid religious people are off the internet.

Hmm one more for fun: Throw your Monitor and Tower into a river, walk home. If it magically appears back in your home, without the use of friends or any person, i will become religous right away because that is great insurance. If not, well... thank god more religous poeple are gone.
you forgot the "if god exists let him strike you all dead!" If it works i shall fall to my knees in worship/reverence :)

[small]

And Greeks.

Remember the movie Troy? Brad Pitt played Achilles. Achilles had a cousin called Patroclus. In the movie Patroclus was "just his cousin".
According to the original mythology they were way more than that

It is really hard to tell because in ancient greek they really didn't differentiate between the love of friends and family and lovers as far as the language went.
aka you having not seen your cousin in a long time would say how you have missed him , how good he looks and how you long to embrace him again.

Certain groups have chosen to suggest that 50% or more of the Greek populace was Gay. but most experts believe the % are about the same as modern day.
Sort of like how certain groups (Man boy love assiocation) that the practice of sending young preteen and teens to live with a non relative mentor, points to the Greeks being pedophiles.
When in realty such things likely did not happen any differently then they do today.

Though it is all up for debate.

[Vishka]

It is really hard to tell because in ancient greek they really didn't differentiate between the love of friends and family and lovers as far as the language went.
aka you having not seen your cousin in a long time would say how you have missed him , how good he looks and how you long to embrace him again.

Certain groups have chosen to suggest that 50% or more of the Greek populace was Gay. but most experts believe the % are about the same as modern day.
Sort of like how certain groups (Man boy love assiocation) that the practice of sending young preteen and teens to live with a non relative mentor, points to the Greeks being pedophiles.
When in realty such things likely did not happen any differently then they do today.

Though it is all up for debate.OMG MEMBLA DOES EXIST! hehe it thought it was a joke ><

[Mertian]

i am against it...

i havent read anything here but...

1. Marriage is a Christian tradition.
2. The bible says marriage between 2 guys/girls is wrong.
3. I have nothing against fags in general, but they can just get their own tradition...

[Jonne]

i am against it...

i havent read anything here but...

1. Marriage is a Christian tradition.
2. The bible says marriage between 2 guys/girls is wrong.
3. I have nothing against fags in general, but they can just get their own tradition...

1. The concept of marriage existed before Jesus got nailed to the cross. Pretty much every single religion has a marriage concept. Even athiests have the concept of marriage. It's a human tradition, not a christian tradition.

2. Anyone who wants to make laws based on a book that was written 2000 years ago shouldn't be allowed to vote on the bases of being a fucken idiot.
You wanna have a lawsystem that is dictated by religion? Try Saudi-Arabia, Iran or Afganistan under the Taleban rule.

3. Marriage is a human tradition. Gay people are humans. Hence it's their tradition aswell

[Jonne]

Here's a little quote from the West Wing (pretty much the best TV show ever made btw). This fits this thread perfectly:


President Josiah Bartlet: Good. I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an abomination.

Dr. Jenna Jacobs: I don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.

President Josiah Bartlet: Yes it does. Leviticus.

Dr. Jenna Jacobs: 18:22.

President Josiah Bartlet: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I have you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police? Here's one that's really important because we've got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?



So yeah, think about those questions before you next time justify a law with the words "cause the Bible says so"

[LostGrace]

Heh, Jonne, teidän englannin kieli on peräti terve. :of_happy:

[small]

OMG MEMBLA DOES EXIST! hehe it thought it was a joke ><

they have a website. SICK stuff. UCLA fought for their right to have a website. one of the reasons i stopped giving money to the UCLA.

Back on topic the act of entering into a homosexual relationship is a choice and would not be protected under the constitution. Specially with the current supreme court make up. (bush after all appointed the last 2). before you argue it is or isn't a choice to be gay. it is a choice to enter in to a relationship rather then being celibate.

Though i personally don't care, if it is allowed or not I think this issue need to be deiced by the states since this is a moral issue.

[Ecsed]

1. The concept of marriage existed before Jesus got nailed to the cross. Pretty much every single religion has a marriage concept. Even athiests have the concept of marriage. It's a human tradition, not a christian tradition.

2. Anyone who wants to make laws based on a book that was written 2000 years ago shouldn't be allowed to vote on the bases of being a fucken idiot.
You wanna have a lawsystem that is dictated by religion? Try Saudi-Arabia, Iran or Afganistan under the Taleban rule.

3. Marriage is a human tradition. Gay people are humans. Hence it's their tradition aswell

And the fact that we don't even know what god's scribe actually wrote... it was hebrew in the beginning and we can't translate it still....

Christian is failed. Good job rapist priests in religion and beating kids for being atheist. Oh, lets not forget the ticket to heaven scam eh?

[Denito(WTT)]

I'm a Christian and am against gay marriage because I find it morally wrong and unnatural, but I keep my religious and political beliefs seperate, I don't think gay marriage should be outlawed because of the bible, but I'm still against it because voting for something I consider wrong is pretty ludicrous.

[Denito(WTT)]

And the fact that we don't even know what god's scribe actually wrote... it was hebrew in the beginning and we can't translate it still....

Christian is failed. Good job rapist priests in religion and beating kids for being atheist. Oh, lets not forget the ticket to heaven scam eh?
catholic and Christian Beliefs are Very, Very different and they're very Different religions, I'm glad you bothered to learn the difference before you shared this insightful thought with us though.

[TheFallenX]

Here's a little quote from the West Wing (pretty much the best TV show ever made btw). This fits this thread perfectly:


President Josiah Bartlet: Good. I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an abomination.

Dr. Jenna Jacobs: I don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.

President Josiah Bartlet: Yes it does. Leviticus.

Dr. Jenna Jacobs: 18:22.

President Josiah Bartlet: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I have you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police? Here's one that's really important because we've got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?



So yeah, think about those questions before you next time justify a law with the words "cause the Bible says so"


Actually if you are a christian then you believe Jesus came to satisfy the old covenant's laws (basically all the laws in the Old Testament like the ones quoted by the West Wing). The laws Christians are supposed to follow are the 10 commandments and the teachings of the New Testaments which also refer to being against homosexuality.

Also to the person who said the we have no idea what the original scribes wrote because the Hebrew could not be translated properly, well there are many other Hebrew texts out there that have been transcribed into many different languages. Also alot of the Bible was translated into Greek and Roman at the same time it was written, as was the custom since Rome ruled the Jews, expecially the New Testament was translated at this time.

Finally Denitto, Catholics are Christians. The only prerequisite for being a Christian is the belief that Jesus was the son of God and that he died on the cross for one's sins. I think you mean that Catholic practices are far removed from what most Protestants believe.

Sorry if I sound anti-gay, I'm really not. I'm all for civil unions. I just hate when people say things without knowing the whole facts on the subject.

[Jonne]

Actually if you are a christian then you believe Jesus came to satisfy the old covenant's laws (basically all the laws in the Old Testament like the ones quoted by the West Wing). The laws Christians are supposed to follow are the 10 commandments and the teachings of the New Testaments which also refer to being against homosexuality.

Also to the person who said the we have no idea what the original scribes wrote because the Hebrew could not be translated properly, well there are many other Hebrew texts out there that have been transcribed into many different languages. Also alot of the Bible was translated into Greek and Roman at the same time it was written, as was the custom since Rome ruled the Jews, expecially the New Testament was translated at this time.

Finally Denitto, Catholics are Christians. The only prerequisite for being a Christian is the belief that Jesus was the son of God and that he died on the cross for one's sins. I think you mean that Catholic practices are far removed from what most Protestants believe.

Sorry if I sound anti-gay, I'm really not. I'm all for civil unions. I just hate when people say things without knowing the whole facts on the subject.

Actually there is no passing in the New Testament that condemnes homosexuality directly. There are some texts which can be interpt as being anti-homosexual, but those phrases can also be translated to meaning sexual immorality in general.
Jesus teaches against sexual immorality, but he never directly specifies homosexuality as such, while does specificallly mention adultery. Because of this, some scholars believe that Jesus infact allowed homosexuality.

The most direct anti-homosexuality statements in the New Testament come from Paul, not Jesus, and even those can be interpt in many different ways.

Anyways, the New Testament does not have a clear stance on homosexuality, and because of this people often use the phrases in the Old Testament to argue against homosexuality. Which is ofcourse stupid cause in the same time you're arguing for slavery and capital punishment for working on Sabbath

[TheFallenX]

Romans 1:26-27 (King James Version) "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

This seems pretty straight forward to me. Yes, these words come from Paul, not Jesus. However, Jesus is on record as saying in Matthew 18:18: "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Which means whatever the church holds true on Earth, Jesus will hold it true in Heaven (Kinda scary to me, but oh well). So, if the church says that homosexuality is a sin, then God agrees.

The other mentions of homosexuality in the New Testament of the Bible are questionable, I'll give you that.

[IronKurgan]

There is No God, We are alone.
And gay marriage? do the words Human survival come to anyones mind ?

[T4MM0]

Whatever makes a person happy inhis/her life is fine with me o.o Personally I don't mind Homosexuals... My religion was Catholic when I was brought up but as soon as I got older I realized how many things I disliked about this religion.. :o Imo closed minded individuals cause alot of wars/problems in this world.

Well said :> . I believe they should be recongnized as a couple but not called marriage and none of that Father & Father | Mother & Mother raising kids shit.

[Vishka]

i am against it...

i havent read anything here but...

1. Marriage is a Christian tradition.
2. The bible says marriage between 2 guys/girls is wrong.
3. I have nothing against fags in general, but they can just get their own tradition...
marriage was around long before jesus.... therefore your an idiot and dont know what your talking about ><

[Vishka]

Romans 1:26-27 (King James Version) "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

This seems pretty straight forward to me. Yes, these words come from Paul, not Jesus. However, Jesus is on record as saying in Matthew 18:18: "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Which means whatever the church holds true on Earth, Jesus will hold it true in Heaven (Kinda scary to me, but oh well). So, if the church says that homosexuality is a sin, then God agrees.

The other mentions of homosexuality in the New Testament of the Bible are questionable, I'll give you that.
am i mistaken but did jesus not say that to one man? he said you to one person... meaning he trusted the judgement of that one person so much he would go before his father and plea with that person... he did not say what the church holds true on earth i shall hold true in heaven...