View Full Version : Melee classes in pve/pvp
Dreadnought
10-03-2005, 01:02 AM
PVE:
- Nuker and archer groups can lvl faster then melee groups.
- Nukers are now better then polearm users at AoE.
- Farmers/Botters seem to prefer Melee since they require less maintanence without SS I guess. Taking the good rooms from melee. (There's basically not a single good Melee room available in any 50+ catacomb/necropolis on my server. You have to PK/PVP/Train farmers to get a room, and that might not be enough)
- Melee uses less adena I guess on SS/Sps then archers/nukers.
PVP
- Nukers and archers are the killers.
- Melee take dmg, stun etc... the boring tasks. Kills other melee, etc...
- Nukers can slow and sleep. Archers can stun from a distance.
- Archers are faster then most melee, except maybe daggers and swordsingers. But daggers miss alot with their specials, and have low HP/CP.
- Even melee characters uses Bows in sieges/pvp. That should give you a clue.
- Cast speed of nukers is just crazy atm.
- As a Destroyer, IF I get close to a nuker, 2 out of 3 nuker classes can kill me within seconds with aura flare spam. Im MELEE, *I* SHOULD have the upper hand in CLOSE RANGE combat against RANGED characters. Sure I can kill them with a couple of crits, if im buffed, but that requires me to reach them and usually for them not to have me targeted for aura spam.
Anyways, what do you think? (Amount of nukers on Teon is just silly btw, everyone and their grandma is either a Spellsinger or a Necromancer or any of the other nukers, and it seems Necromancer is going to be Subclass of the year)
Zerui
10-03-2005, 03:08 AM
archers only have more cp than daggers, not more hp, and daggers dont wiff that much as you. And only stupid people who are melee classes use bop in pvp.
Sheera
10-03-2005, 03:48 AM
archers only have more cp than daggers, not more hp, and daggers dont wiff that much as you. And only stupid people who are melee classes use bop in pvp.
Read again.
Stop calling ppl stupid because you only read/understand half of what he says.
archers only have more cp than daggers, not more hp, and daggers dont wiff that much as you. And only stupid people who are melee classes use bop in pvp.
Archers also have more HP than daggers but the HP difference is pretty small for each.
solah
10-05-2005, 03:03 PM
Botters use melee with healers so there isn't any downtime not because of ss cost. Full nuker grps would have to regen too often, killing their efficiency.
As for Melee costing less, SS-wise, than archers, you should try playing a grouped buffed tyrant. SS cost is sickening. Though I would agree that melee classes cost less per hit, they require quite a bit more hits to do the same damage. I don't believe the SS disparity is really that bad, unless you're a nuker spammin bsps.
I don't believe the Destroyer vs. Nuker argument is valid. You aren't a mage killing class, and probably never will be. You're too slow, take forever to get to them. Now if it were not a controlled situation, like a duel where you start out at max nuke distance, it would be a different story. As a destroyer, you do enough damage that if the fight were to start with the you two standing side by side, you'd have a chance. But fighter orcs have poor resistance to sleep/root beyond what their jewelry provides, so I wouldn't bet on you.
Every class has it's place in the game, and there will always be classes that aren't evenly matched to each other. You don't see full nuker grps with no melee doing raid bosses, just like you usually don't see full melee groups running trains. The purpose of class balancing isn't to make it so any two classes could feasibly kill each other with a 50/50 probability. It's about making all classes useful to a point. Of course, L2 isn't perfectly balanced, but we can all hope that the overpowered ones get nerfed and our classes become uber with each passing chronicle.
Deceit
10-05-2005, 03:12 PM
archers only have more cp than daggers, not more hp, and daggers dont wiff that much as you. And only stupid people who are melee classes use bop in pvp.
Your retarded. Only stupid people? How bout a destroyer with a bop? messes shit up. How about a tank who ud's? Obviously people arent going to stand right next to him. TH with a bow can mess stuff up as well.
Think before you talk
(There's basically not a single good Melee room available in any 50+ catacomb/necropolis on my server. You have to PK/PVP/Train farmers to get a room, and that might not be enough)
Wow. There are so many open Catacomb rooms on Devianne 50+ it's not even funny. And Devianne's almost always normal status at night. Farmers are not nearly the menance they once were here.
Every class has it's place in the game, and there will always be classes that aren't evenly matched to each other. You don't see full nuker grps with no melee doing raid bosses, just like you usually don't see full melee groups running trains. The purpose of class balancing isn't to make it so any two classes could feasibly kill each other with a 50/50 probability. It's about making all classes useful to a point. Of course, L2 isn't perfectly balanced, but we can all hope that the overpowered ones get nerfed and our classes become uber with each passing chronicle.
L2 has a long way to go in terms of balance, but I think melees (not daggers) were always a bit gimped in some respects. Even when DAs reigned with shield stun they could not level as fast as archers. Daggers could 2-shot everything in C2, even tanks, which made melee even more gimp. Destroyers were virtually unheard of, and most PvP groups wanted archers/daggers. Even exp groups hated tanks for their slow speed.
What they did in C3 was simply made daggers (which falls under melee but was above and beyond other melees) equal to other melees, without doing anything to boost all melees up. In such a way they made archers and mages seem more supreme and uber, when in C1+C2 they nerfed archery quite a bit, and in prelude/C1 mages were pathetic and later boosted.
It's sad but true, in L2 offense is by a long shot better than defense. Why have a bishop with good heals or EE with PR and advanced block when you can have SE with empower and VR? Why have a tank when you can kill faster with another dd? Why bother healing for 1k+ damage per 120mp when mages can hit for 2k+ damage per 70mp? It's not balanced right now but I don't believe NC has a way of fixing it either. In fact, all they seem to be doing is upping the damage on all classes.
You don't see full nuker grps with no melee doing raid bosses
yea you do O.o
only need nukers, se's, and 1 da
Epistle
10-05-2005, 10:53 PM
yea you do O.o
only need nukers, se's, and 1 da
and a bd, fucktard.
Sieger
10-06-2005, 12:37 AM
@Dreadnought : I think you summed it up pretty much. If this was a game of chess, melee would be the peasants.
Epistle
10-06-2005, 01:02 AM
We're the "expendables"
@Dreadnought : I think you summed it up pretty much. If this was a game of chess, melee would be the peasants.
You almost had something there, Sieger, and then you screwed up the analogy :p
Yeap. Ranged DD's > all other DD's in lineage right now. C4 aims to fix that, a little, with a new sws song at 75+ that halves (melee) skill reuse time ... but basically, yeah...how many 75+ sws's are gonna be around for those six melee people still playing? ;)
Zerui
10-06-2005, 03:59 AM
Your retarded. Only stupid people? How bout a destroyer with a bop? messes shit up. How about a tank who ud's? Obviously people arent going to stand right next to him. TH with a bow can mess stuff up as well.
Think before you talk
A TH with dagger would do way more damage than with bow.
Hybrid
10-06-2005, 06:06 AM
PVE:
- Nuker and archer groups can lvl faster then melee groups.
- Nukers are now better then polearm users at AoE.
- Farmers/Botters seem to prefer Melee since they require less maintanence without SS I guess. Taking the good rooms from melee. (There's basically not a single good Melee room available in any 50+ catacomb/necropolis on my server. You have to PK/PVP/Train farmers to get a room, and that might not be enough)
- Melee uses less adena I guess on SS/Sps then archers/nukers.
PVP
- Nukers and archers are the killers.
- Melee take dmg, stun etc... the boring tasks. Kills other melee, etc...
- Nukers can slow and sleep. Archers can stun from a distance.
- Archers are faster then most melee, except maybe daggers and swordsingers. But daggers miss alot with their specials, and have low HP/CP.
- Even melee characters uses Bows in sieges/pvp. That should give you a clue.
- Cast speed of nukers is just crazy atm.
- As a Destroyer, IF I get close to a nuker, 2 out of 3 nuker classes can kill me within seconds with aura flare spam. Im MELEE, *I* SHOULD have the upper hand in CLOSE RANGE combat against RANGED characters. Sure I can kill them with a couple of crits, if im buffed, but that requires me to reach them and usually for them not to have me targeted for aura spam.
Anyways, what do you think? (Amount of nukers on Teon is just silly btw, everyone and their grandma is either a Spellsinger or a Necromancer or any of the other nukers, and it seems Necromancer is going to be Subclass of the year)
Amen brother. I myself am a Tyrant and in raids and sieges people invite melee out of pure pity "Sure lets just get that guy whatever....".
fcuking pissing me off when a necro nukes for 1.5k in sieges and you can't even see him when he's standing on that gay ass wall, or you see the gay little necro standing 200m infront of you.
1 thing tho...
When i PvP a sps in arena and I ask him NOT to use Cancel he doesn't stand a chance. I use my 4 hit combo and he lies on the ground. And in C4 Cancel will be nerfed right?
BTW i played a Hawkeye before and I have never been more bored im my life. Same goes for SR and PR... booring classes
DarkLordSaske
10-06-2005, 06:29 AM
Maybe cause us peeps on kain are so pvp minded we think outside of the box an dont wanna be powerless in any situation ranged or close, i myself am a gladi , yea i got a bow , but after i activate warcry that shyt raises my patk nearly to 2k.
For the cost of mana i can mess ranged classes up or melee's until i get close to em.
Drintera
10-06-2005, 06:37 AM
A TH with dagger would do way more damage than with bow.
Not when you cant get close to your enemy, retard.
Tarun
10-06-2005, 06:38 AM
A TH with dagger would do way more damage than with bow.
What about a rooted/slowed gladi or warlord (thrill fight anyone?) using vicious stance? A destroyer using frenzy? A tank UD'ing? A tyrant using certain totems?
What about any given melee class stuck on castle walls while the enemy is attacking?
I enjoy being durable and a low priority on the siege field, but it doesn't quite justify the amount of damage or utility we can do. Simply increasing the chance to cancel casts with melee attacks would make a lot of sense.
It's verified that cancel will have a (much higher) chance to fail come C4...but the reuse timer has been dropped. :hmm:
Timberwolf
10-06-2005, 08:20 AM
In PvE I think melee are better at somethings and worse at others, yes stop the press and hear me out. Ok yeah archers and mages can solo faster and 1v1 are amazing, but in a healer/melee combo and set up right can lvl just as fast, if not faster. You have just goto find your neiche gameplay.
Ok I am a dwarf and I was always in high demand when i was 52-58 using lance. Pulling 6-7 mobs up a corner and BAM all dead adn big Exp.
As for PvP out of sieges the same applies as i said in PvE, that is archers/nukers are kings, but on a seige battlefield they have their roll and so do the melee and tankers. In close quarter fighting inside the castle archers/nukers take a pounding because you can force a lot more close combat fighting.
In C4 I think it will all be a lot more evenly balanced because the melees get more damage. The only thing I am worried about atm is that Dwarfs ARE getting left behind in this balance. Daggers are gonna suffer a bit from 52-75 but then the new skills kick in and they will be good again
Hybrid
10-06-2005, 09:29 AM
In C4 I think it will all be a lot more evenly balanced because the melees get more damage. The only thing I am worried about atm is that Dwarfs ARE getting left behind in this balance. Daggers are gonna suffer a bit from 52-75 but then the new skills kick in and they will be good again
Melee will do more damage? Is this true or are you just making this stuff up as you go along?
Timberwolf
10-06-2005, 11:30 AM
Melee will do more damage? Is this true or are you just making this stuff up as you go along?
melees with pets that is, because of Pet SS (PSS, PBsps etc..)
Tarun
10-06-2005, 11:51 AM
That includes mages too, though, so it's not really an advantage melee summoners get.
Zerui
10-06-2005, 02:00 PM
What about a rooted/slowed gladi or warlord (thrill fight anyone?) using vicious stance? A destroyer using frenzy? A tank UD'ing? A tyrant using certain totems?
What about any given melee class stuck on castle walls while the enemy is attacking?
I enjoy being durable and a low priority on the siege field, but it doesn't quite justify the amount of damage or utility we can do. Simply increasing the chance to cancel casts with melee attacks would make a lot of sense.
You are not slowed or rooted for a year, and i said that a th would do more damage with a dagger then with a bow, and i did not say that meleeclasses are not allowed to use bows.
zoidlar
10-06-2005, 02:18 PM
why cant cubics use sps :(
Dexstar
10-06-2005, 03:25 PM
Well you can't chainroot anyone anymore, so root won't be AS bad as it is now, and as previously mentioned any melee serious about PVP should carry a half-decent bow for such situations.
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